Yeah, absolutely delighted to be here, Emma. So, I’m Sue Preston, I’m currently the Vice President and General Manager for Advisory and Professional Services at Hewlett-Packard Enterprise, which is a global role. Going way back, I was always interested in science when I was at school, so studied physics, chemistry, and biology but then I came to realise I didn’t want to continue down the education path, and I wanted to go and work. So, I joined what was classed as a Youth Training Scheme, so apprenticeships and that’s how I got into technology because the first organisation I worked for was an IT recruitment company. I worked through my career in individual contributor roles, manager roles, people manager roles, programme director role for a data centre build and then was at another organisation where I took on a global role because I wanted global experience in the financial services sector. Then I spent a short space of time at Microsoft in the apps, infrastructure, and data AI space. And then I’ve been at HPE nearly four years now.

Throughout that time, what kind of challenges do you feel that you faced being a woman in that field?

I think going back very early, I was always challenged with respect to the number of women that were in the room versus male counterparts, and I found that early in my career, I had to study a lot more across the technology landscape. There were lots of moments where people would assume that I was the admin. There are some funny moments throughout my career of how I addressed that. There’s always challenges in anything that you do, but I think some of the time, not in my current role, but previous roles I’d experience microaggressions where people would take my ideas and then share them as their own. But I’ve managed to deal with those situations throughout my career.

How did you navigate those power structures early on in your career in those people manager roles where you may have been considered or thought of as admin compared to now, where you’re in a much more formal leadership role?

I think early on in career, so for people that are tuning in wherever your position is in your career, you need to lead your own development. That is something that is in my rule book and whoever I worked for, I would get into a routine with that manager that one review would be based on the work, the business, the strategic direction of the organisation and the impact that I drove within that. And then the other one-to-one would be about Sue. I always worked for male bosses, I think there was one female leader that I worked for, it was taking control of how I developed me and how I had support from key stakeholders to address those situations that I experienced throughout my career.

Did you realise quite early on that you had to take control and demand that, or did it take quite a while before you started to realise you weren’t getting asked about those things and you had to step in and do it?

The interesting thing is I think that what makes us as leaders will start from a very young age.  I think from when you’re a child, how you’ve navigated things, reflecting back I’ve always built a network. I’ve always had friends. You know, there’s some funny moments, I once had a 13th birthday party and my mum said to me, how many are coming and about 100 kids turned up when there was supposed to be 20. So, I think it’s building that network around you because you need support. Any new organisation that I’ve landed in I look around me and see who are the people that inspire me? That’s who I need to go to, to learn and gain their coaching in some of those situations that I had to challenge. So, I think it is building the network in order to have those sponsors and supporters for when you’re addressing these challenges and it could be internal or external.

Representation and inclusion are both so important when talking about things like women in business, as a leader, how do you stay mindful about who’s at the table and who’s missing?

Let’s focus the lens on gender, when we’re looking at recruiting and building teams, across leadership you need to ensure that there’s a process that all of your leaders are focused on to have a balance and a balance of candidates and potential top talent that can move throughout the organisation. The other elements as well is supporting females with regards to impostor syndrome. If you’re looking at a job spec females will probably think ‘Oh, I can’t do that. I haven’t done that’, we can always learn, you’ve got to throw yourself in. I think that’s one of the things I’ve always done. It doesn’t matter, I’ve always got in the deep end. Whereas sometimes male counterparts would think ‘oh I can’t do that, but that’s OK you still go for it’.

Being true to our word of helping other females is absolutely critical, and that’s where I spend a lot of my time. My door is always open. I also sit on the Tech UK Board Trade Association in the UK, and I think that again gives me a different perspective across the other board members and some of the members as well, of how we’re being inclusive and how we’re looking at driving that dynamic specifically in the UK market.

How would you say in general all of us can help support other women, open up those opportunities, when we’re not in those leadership roles?

If we’re not in the leadership roles, I think it comes back to building your network and being present. So, if you look at the platforms, LinkedIn is fantastic, that wasn’t there when I started my career so joining groups, following forums for yourself to get tips. As individual contributors or team members it comes down to building that confidence. So going to those types of forums the first time. I always say to people, when did you last feel uncomfortable? If you know there’s something that you’ve got to do, feeling uncomfortable is a good thing because it shows that you’re learning and you’re driving your brand, whatever your role is within an organisation.

In March this year, the government appointed their first ever menopause employment champion to help improve workplace support. However, women with menopausal symptoms are still 43% more likely to have left their jobs by the age of 55 and a third of women have had to take time off due to these symptoms¹. Do you think enough is being done to support these employees?

My personal view is that over the last 18 months, two years, there’s been a lot of focus. There has been a lot of focus where organisations are driving menopause friendly organisations. That is a good move. I think the other element that needs to be focused on is how that training and enablement is driven across organisations, how people react and deal with it. So again, comes back to courage and I’ll share, I’m happy, I’ve gone through the menopause and at the time, the symptoms can really challenge you with your confidence. Basic things like typing an e-mail or thinking of action lists that you need to do and anxiety with people. I’ve known friends as well that have taken time off work and it’s fine to do that.

We have to ensure that we’re not losing females within the work environment, purely down to the menopause. It’s life. I speak to lots of different people, females that are suffering with endometriosis or there’s lots of other different things, it’s us, it’s part of our biology and we need to be supported in the workplace during those times. There needs to be schemes. There needs to be initiatives, there needs to be groups and we need to be inclusive with how we’re supporting people within the organisation to take the time that they need.

I think one of the biggest problems there was, was the lack of understanding about it and that people didn’t know enough about it because back in 2017 the Government Equalities Office came out and said there is not enough understanding about menopause, and this is having an effect on workplace culture, we’re not including it in our training and we don’t have the correct policies around it². Obviously like you said, since then, there’s been a lot more talk about it and it hasn’t been quite so pushed under the carpet, not wanted to talk about. There’s definitely been great improvements. Other than menopause, what else have you seen that you’ve felt like has really improved, maybe across the last 20 years for women in business?

I agree with you, there’s more awareness on menopause and Davina McCall has helped amplify it and it’s good because in an inclusive world we need to address these things.

I think another area that’s improved as well is that people have taken action to support having a diverse workforce. In a global role being inclusive with regards to different cultures, we are more global in regards to how we’re addressing people’s differences and I think that’s a good step. Pronouncing people’s names, I’ve just returned from a trip to India, it’s making that effort to be truly inclusive and respectful. I think if I look at people’s development plans, you know within some of the career organisations that I’ve worked in English is people’s second language sometimes. So it’s effective communication. It’s not just about spoken language; it’s how people are showing up and amplifying their voice and their opinion. So, I think there’s more inclusion around accepting differences and supporting individuals that have got a different view. And that they’ve got a different experience.

That’s why it’s so important to have such great network around you and people you trust, because it’s important to hold each other accountable to these things. And sometimes it’s needing someone to step in and kind of say oh have we discussed this? We need to think about this. Having a team where those discussions aren’t avoided, and they’re brought up a lot.

Just to add to that Emma as well because like you mentioned irrelevant to your position in the organisation, whether you’re a leader or not, there’s one thing that I focus on in that situation: behaviour and impact. The other thing that I’ve noticed is if somebody works for somebody else within an organisation and there’s a behaviour that’s witnessed, then it’s your duty to go to that person. The first thing is ask if they’re okay. Sometimes things can happen in people’s personal life or there’s some major challenge that they show up in a different way, but it’s unintentional. We all have a duty of care to help that within organisations and help develop people as well. Somebody might be unhappy in their role. They might be looking at their next opportunity. It could be a multitude of things, but I think that I’ve seen an improvement that people are more caring in a way to help others and to coach your relevance to where they sit within an organisation.

And finally, what piece of advice would you give to other women who are aspiring to become leaders?

Just go for it. The only person that can stop you is you. And I think that you have to map out a journey and then think about those things, look at your own self-development as to where your gaps are. But don’t be frightened. Don’t be frightened by something. Feeling uncomfortable is good. If that is your ambition and it’s ok to take a detour. All of the things that I’ve done in my career have been purposeful and I want to get to CEO. That is my ambition and therefore I’ve mapped it out and it’s okay if I’ve taken a detour to ultimately get to that position. It’s okay if you don’t want to be, but if that’s something that you’re aspiring for, there’s only you that can make it happen.

1. https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5803/cmselect/cmwomeq/91/report.html
2. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/menopause-transition-effects-on-womens-economic-participation